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February 20, 2005



Cardinal, a lot to cover, but:

On the whole I think you'll find we're violently in agreement on this one. I'm a of working class stock, and back in the 1970s the only Tory working class people (like my dad) respected was Our Enoch.

Although I have no problem with immigration as such, I think it should be strictly controlled, and focused on assimilation. For that reason, I'd agree that immigrants should be English and of western ways (given my creeping Anglicanism, I'm tempted to demand they sign the 39 Articles, but perhaps not!).

A lot of those from Hong Kong were used to living under British government, with the rule of law and the English language. Quite a few are also (I believe) Christian. They had also made their lives under the promises of British Government, and were being handed over to a vicious tyranny. Their economic benefits are just supporting reasons, really.

On the politics - immigration's here to stay as a big issue until changes are made. Remember that immigration is a dynamite issue in England and has been for the last century. The differences viz. the US are quite stark - the US has a much stronger tradition of immigration, and is also a much less densely populated country.

It's heartening that the politics of this has sparked up very quickly, and with the ethnic population significantly below the levels seen in a lot of EU nations. It's a small sign of life that suggests England might (as before) escape as the rest of Europe jumps down the abyss.

Mrs. P: For the reasons said above, I think English immigration politics is very different from the US. Most English people have never been comfortable with the idea of mass immigration, which has only ever been forced on them for economic reasons.

In the 1950s and 1960s, these were people from former imperial territories - many of whom are more loyal and patriotic than the locals. Because of Enoch Powell in the 1960s, immigration was rapidly slowed down - Mrs Thatcher especially cracked down on it in the 1980s. During the 1990s it started to grow, and in the last few years, the Government have allowed a tripling even of these levels - and these are often people have no interest in the country except the opportunity it offers.

Because we don't have the immigration traditions the US does, plus the same multiculturalism you do, we haven't got the institutions to assimilate new migrants. Round here where I live - apparently one of the most diverse cities in Europe - I can sometimes walk home from work without hearing English spoken.


Of course religion is applicable for the US. This is a Judeo-Christian nation. And Judeo-Christian principles run throughout our law and culture at large.

Just look locally at the sort of trouble that's going on in Hammtramck with Muslims wanting to attach loud speakers to their mosques so they can blair their calls to prayer all over a Christian town.

I'm sorry, Janet, but we've got trouble right here in River City...or Hammtramck as the case may be.


Blimpish, I am English-speaking. My ancestory is English. I know English history. I admire the English, their institutions and their culture at large.
Perhaps, therefore, I would qualify as a positive candidate for immigration to England. If this should ever happen, you have my vote.


the Cardinal's wife

Does this mean you're leaving me and Mrs. P?


Pack my books. Vote Blimpish. Rule Brintannia.

the Cardinal's wife

Mrs. P., where shall we go?

Mrs. Peperium

Oh, I don't disagree with you Cardinal. We are a Judeo-Christian country, but while colleges and corporations are allowed to admit only those they deem worthy, the country as a whole isn't. True, things were different once-upon-a-time, but as we all know liberals have been working for "change" and "progress" on this issue for 50 years.

For our non-local readers, the Hamtrammack story goes something like this: Hamtrammack is very poor city within the city of Detroit. It once boasted a large Polish population complete with beautiful Catholic churches. But due to the blight that has gripped Detroit, combined with the loss of Catholic schools as a result of a funding(?) proposal in the '70's, most residents fled. Now, because of cheap housing, it is a very attractive place for immigrants. There has been a consequent rise in the local Muslim population. Nearby Dearborn has the largest Arab Muslim population in the U.S. Hamtrammack Muslims tend to be more diverse (Macedonian, Croatian and Serbian refugees as well as Arabs). Anyway, the mosque in Hamtrammack sued to be allowed to broadcast their daily call to prayers in Arabic from loudspeakers. A huge mess ensued. Pressure from the usual suspects was brought to bear. The city council yielded to that pressure; the ringing of Catholic church bells was equated with the broadcast of prayers and guess what...now the Islamic call to prayer is broadcast in Hamtrammack morning, noon, and night.

Mrs. Peperium

I thought we were running Misspent for Congress? Go, why to the Soiled Kilt or whatever Blimpish's pub is called of course. That Monty is interesting. Everytime we give him an award he disappears. But the rest of the time he's freely dispensing advice.


Need I say more?


What happens when I die? What kind of question is that?

First, all my secrets go with me.
Second, I either go where the Lord takes me.


How can you claim to be Judeo-Christian when you refused Jewish refugees in the 1930s because they may be 'communist'? Judeo-Christian is a misnomer if you ask me.

Mrs. Peperium

You're right. We did refuse Jewish refugees. As a result they died. Dreadful. I think there was more behind the refusal than just Communism. There was a very real fear of being drawn into Europe's problem. One, that at the time better advisors would have said was unavoidable so do the right thing. (The Cardinal will know more and I'll ask Mr. P.) However, poor and immoral decisions by our leaders does not make the Judeo-Christian roots of our country null and void. Misspent, I ask the question because Blimpish has expressed that the C of E and Catholicism interest him and are far superior to nihilism...Both C of E (his preference) and Catholicism are sacramental churches. Baptism is an 'interior' sacrament. We gain entrance to heaven by baptism. No other way unless he was born on a remote island in Thailand. Neither church varies on this. Therefore baptism is not only important for that reason it is important because it is transforming.


Monjo, I agree with your point, but you shouldn't put sneer quotes on the word communist - there were (are..?) communists, and they did present issues.

Mrs. P: you should worry. My city's notorious as al-Qa'eda's European logistical base.

Cardinal: one down, another 20,000-odd to go and I can get elected.

Mrs. Peperium



No lie. On the don't-s***-on-your-own-doorstep principle, at least means we're probably safe. And the Muslims are quite a small minority (if growing quite fast) in the city, which is probably 60% white and 30% Indian. Stephenesque spent some time not too far away in his yoof.


J. Edgar Hoover was scared by the Homosexual and Jewish 'Communism' as he saw it. Hoover stamped down on it hard, probably to hide the fact that he was a pillow-biter. Because Hoover couldnt accept to be honest about liking a bit of bum he was behind a number of very nasty US policies: eugenics, ethnic profiling for immigrations, and racial profiling for immigration.
Had Germany not embraced Nazism in the 1930s, the USA would have gone to an ideological war with Russia by the 1940s anyway. The US would have lost.


The US had been in an "ideological war" with the Soviets since the Russian Revolution. You obviously have something else in mind. What? The end of your post sounds like a wildly sweeping statement. I'd really like to know exactly what you mean --and how you support it.

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