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September 12, 2006

Comments

MCNS

The caption under the pic of Andrew Sullivan at his site http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/

"Illustration for TIME by Terry Colon."

Just struck me as amusing, is all.

Mrs. Peperium

More than amusing. Really comical verging on the-rolling-on-the-floor-hysterical if you treat it in the same fashion Sullivan treats Brookhiser in his article. By the way, does this mean we should add plumbing alongide of art and architecture to the types of posts you enjoy? I'm sure Basil could do a whopping plumbing post...

Andrew Cusack

Does that mean that when I praise the great and noble John Wilkes Booth, I'm being a homophobe?

Mrs. Peperium

Wait. Did I just hear a bell go off signaling the begining of Round II? Okay...gloves are on...laced up..hands are up...protecting my face... I'm ready to spar. Why, oh, why Mr. Cusack is John Wilkes Booth noble and great?
(Your answer will determine your homophobe status -it's looking pretty good from where I'm standing - as well as if your name is Mudd)

While you're answering this one could you also tell us the identity of the fellow behind The Panero in the wedding photo Basil Seal has posted over at his blog.

Fiendish

Mrs. P, you may want to think twice in the future before initiating "Scream Bloody Murder" as a blog topic. Maybe even thrice.

Mrs. Peperium

By the way, if this is the start of Round II, my condolences to Messrs. Elk, Seal, Llama and Lout. Tomorrow was supposed to the first installment of Tales From the Garret. Arguing about the Confederacy will be so much more bracing and edifying anyway...

Mrs. Peperium

Fiendish, why? Is that not done or because the feds pick up on such things? Once they see Andrew Sullivan's name connected to it, they'll understand. He's known for his hissy fits.

Fiendish

I was not referring at all to Andrew Sullivan. I was thinking of the Pandora's box you have now opened with the other Andrew. I am not 100% convinced that the patiently waiting Roman Catholic Boys for Art would really have gotten any actual Tales From the Garret, even if the other Andrew had not thrown down what he must regard as the tyranicide gauntlet. (Not to be confused with the so-called "tyranicide" in 1649, as described in a loathsome book which I brought to Mr. P's attention the other day.)

Andrew Cusack

Lincoln, like Henry VIII, was a rebel from above.

Booth is our Stauffenberg! Or more properly, he is our Brutus, since his attempt at tyrannicide was successful. Sadly, Lincoln's death came far too late to save the Republic and the Constitution, nor did it prevent the tyrannies of Reconstruction, but (like Stauffenberg) at least someone put in a good effort.

Mrs. Peperium

Mr. Cusack, as our RCIA priest instructed and Charles Coloumbe reminded, the end never justifys the means. Booth was an assassin. He may have been the greatest patriot Virginia ever had, but when he murdered Lincoln, he cast his lot with the lowest of the low. So did all of his fellow conspirators.

Also, one should keep in mind that if the United States had been a Catholic country, Mr. Booth because of both his, and his parent's chosen profession, would have been ex-communicated from the Church...

Noble my... Now on to nudes.

Andrew Cusack

So you would condemn Stauffenberg as well?

Mrs. Peperium

Condemn is not the right word. Also I think it's an apples to oranges argument, Someone like Old Dominion could probably argue better what I'm about, but since he's not you must work your brains very hard to understand what I am attempting to say. 1. Our country has a civilian-led military for federal purposes to end local disputes like slavery. 2. I don't think the German military was the same - it was more aristocracy-led but there probably is a proper name for what it actually was. 3. Stauffenberg's plot , I think, could be loosely understood as a military coup. A faction of the military who assented to Hitler in his early days, over the years found the real Hitler to be morally repugnant -yes that is an understatement- and they got together to off him. The truth about Hitler was there in the early days for those who wanted to see it. These men did go along with him. Terribly sad for them considering theirs and their families true nobleness to the service of Germany with the exception of WWI - those bozos... Stauffenberg was the guy who carried the bomb but many more were in on it. What their plans for Germany after Hitler's death is where the greatest divide is between Stauffenberg and Booth. Stauffenberg and his co-conspirators would have taken control of Germany, ended the final solution then some. What were Booth's plans?

How the Church views Stauffenberg's actions are for a more intelligent person than I. No matter what, he attempted to end lives by placing a bomb under a table - granted with far more mitigating circumstances than Booth ever had - but a murderer is a murderer. A murderer needs reconcilliation... A soldier is under orders to kill the enemy. That is not murder, that is self-defense. Stauffenberg was not ordered to kill Hitler.

Andrew Cusack

Perhaps you have a point, Mrs. P. Perhaps. I nonetheless believe a Catholic argument can still be made for tyrannicide, though I'm not entirely sure what that argument is. Until I am further enlightened, my sympathies remain with Brutus, with Booth, and with Stauffenberg. With the traditionalists, against the innovators.

(I will concede that I am much more a deep-seated opponent of Lincoln than I a hearty supporter of Booth).

Old Dominion Tory

With all due respect, Mrs. Peperium, Stauffenberg is a hero--and, dare I say, an authentically Catholic one. Considering the horrors that Nazi Germany already had committed and the death and destruction that occurred in last eleven months of the war, thanks to Hitler's burning desire to take an undeserving Germany down with him, a strong arguement can be made that his attempt to kill Hitler was justified.
With all due respect, Mr. Cusack, Booth is not a hero. First, the rebellion was over (no less than Robert E. Lee accepted this); Booth's plot was, therefore, one of bloody-minded vengeance. Second, by killing Lincoln, Booth opened the door to the Radical Republicans' Reconstruction; if his Second Inaugural Address is any indication, Lincoln's probably would have been much less harsh. Third and most important, admittedly, Lincoln often took extraordinary liberties with the Constitution; however, his actions are in no way as tyrannical as Hitler's and most certainly not as evil.

Old Dominion Tory

Mrs. Peperium and Mr. Cusack: Please understand that I was composing my comments while you were composing and posting yours. I am not, therefore, specifically addressing the points you made in your comments.
Give me some time and I'll reengage.
Thank you for understanding.
Regards.

Andrew Cusack

Well, you've already changed my mind. While an action like Booth's may have been worthwhile in the years before, by the time he did it there was no point, and it served only to flare tensions and likely did more harm than good. He was a Fawkes, then, not a Staffenberg.

Mrs. Peperium

Just because Stauffenberg may have cast himself into outer darkness by offing Hitler does not mean I don't view him as heroic. I do. Germany after WWI was a shambles, mentally. Mr. P (I believe I am recalling this correctly) blames largely the Treaty of Versailles for WWII. Mr. P is also almost 75% German. In the early days Hitler strongly appealed to people's nationalistic pride and sense of patriotism. Stauffenberg unfortunately fell for it. Sad, really. Who knows what we ourselves would have done...

MCNS

Lord, what next? Odes to Leon Czolgosz as a champion of The Lost Cause, or John Hinckley as a tribune of state's rahts?

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